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Episode 61 – Firestone Walker – 14 (Anniversary) vs Sierra Nevada – Estate

Special Guest: Webmaster Benjamin Bogolub. Opening beers Lost Abbey Red Poppy and HaandBryggeriet Dark Force. Economics of popular beers with another DLD ticket update. Speakeasy – “sour” Prohibition Ale brewery response. New beer Our Barrel Ale from Anchor. Two California beers face off.

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Dark Lord Day Tickets – A quick study in economics

Dark Lord Day 2011 tickets went on sale as planned on March 19th, 2011 at precisely 1pm central daylight time. By most accounts, all 6000 tickets were sold in less than 10 minutes (some say less than 5 minutes). The ticket face value was $10, there was a $2 service fee plus (kind of steep if you ask me) $.50 for postage. In all, the cost per ticket was $12.50. (I would suspect that most people bought their 2 ticket maximum – for various reasons). Now, what does this ticket get you (other than praise and possible favors from your less fortunate beer friends)? It gets you the opportunity to purchase somewhere around 3-4 bottles of Dark Lord, a Russian Imperial Stout from Three Floyds Brewery in Munster, Indiana (for this we’ll stick to 3 bottles, as that is a conservative prediction of the allotment this year). These bottles will most likely retail for $15 per bottle on DLD, so what you really purchased is a car trip to Indiana and an obligation to spend another $45.

Contrary to previous years, Three Floyds is attempting to somewhat control the number of people that show up on Dark Lord Day, and also help alleviate the massive confusing lines. A ticket will be required to enter the “premises,” whatever that means (the premises encompass all of a generous 50,000 square feet and cannot possibly accommodate 6000 people). There are some metal bands performing throughout the day, and port-o-potties on site, and that is pretty much the extent you get for free – otherwise there is opportunity to purchase Three Floyds beers and guest beers as well as Three Floyds food and merchandise. All of this could be had without the need for the ticket, so presumably the ticket really only gets you the opportunity to purchase 3 – $15 bottles of beer. But what these restrictions really mean is that the value of both the ticket and the beer goes up because there is far less supply than required to fulfill the demand and the added restrictions this year mean fewer people will be in attendance.

Now, funny thing, these tickets seem to be worth a bit more than $12.50 ea. Some are crying foul at the $300/ea prices people are asking on Stub Hub for these tickets. As of a few minutes after the sale, several tickets were already posted for $250. As of this writing there are at least 46 tickets listed on the StubHub, ranging in price from  $97 each to $300 – more than enough for a quick study on market economics!

What is the true value of this Dark Lord Day ticket? Is it really $12.50? Or is it $300 as some hopeful Stubhub prospector thinks. Let’s look into this a bit deeper. Last year, on the day after 2010 Dark Lord (Sunday), I tested the eBay market by offering one of my Dark Lord bottles for sale at about 1pm (of course the value of the sale was in the collectible bottle, any contents were incidental) . The bottle sold within 70 minutes for my “buy it now” price of $45. There was clearly an immediate market for Dark Lord and the market price was in the range of $45 a bottle. Perhaps my price was even too low given the quickness of the sale.

Some assumptions: Let’s combine the three bottles into a batch and assume that anyone willing to buy one bottle is also willing to buy 2 more bottles at the same price – it just makes this little thought experiment more simple, and spread the cost of the ticket over the 3 bottles. We’ll also say that time to travel to the brewery or wait in line is free – and any shipping costs to the buyer are separate and not included in this study. Let’s just assume you live across the street from the brewery.

Say I got a ticket and paid the $12.50, the ticket itself has no real value until cashed in for 3 bottles of Dark Lord, making the fixed cost of the bottles $57.50 and I would have to sell them for $19.17 each to break even, so already the value of the beer has gone up. That is the absolute rock bottom price you could charge and break even on Dark Lord.

Let’s look at a the $45 eBay price I was able to charge for a single bottle. Assuming I can sell all 3 bottles at the same price – I will have made a profit of $77.50. But is that the true value of a Dark Lord Day Ticket? Getting closer I think. If someone buys the ticket from me for $77.50, I make the same profit as I would selling the bottles on eBay, but they have to exchange the ticket(+$45) for the 3 bottles, and then sell them on eBay – netting a profit of only the $12.50 ticket cost. Hardly worth the effort – they would need to get much more than $45/bottle. Could they?

Of course they could. Since tickets for 2011 Dark Lord Day sold out on Saturday afternoon, 3 bottles of Dark Lord were sold on eBay for an average price of $69. (2009 bottles were also going for around $60 each). Even a year ago, some bottles of 2010 were selling for more than the $45 I received. A local bar in Chicago I visited a few months ago had a bottle or two they were selling for $99 – clearly you can get more than the $25 profit I received for the one bottle I sold, depending on the place/time/buyer/etc… However, this additional profit comes from market timing, storage costs, etc… Ya know – actual work?!?!? If you are a beer collector, a bar, or some kind of rare beer broker, you might have the time and patience to wait a few months or years before eventually selling the Dark Lord at optimal prices. If you can wait, time the market correctly, be in the right place, and you have minimal storage costs – I would estimate that you could readily get a conservative price of about $75 a bottle or higher the longer you can wait.

At $75 a bottle, with a cost of $19.17 each, that is a profit of $167.50 on 3 bottles for the original ticket buyer. And looking at it from the secondary ticket market perspective, any ticket price that is $180 or less, you would break even or make money. Say you pay $100 for a ticket, exchange the ticket +$45 for 3 Dark Lords, then sell the Dark lords for $75 each, you net a profit of $80.

So I think I have proven that the absolute maximum someone should pay for a ticket given the long term market is $180. Where is the StubHub market right now? The 23 sets of tickets are selling for an average price of…..$176.69! However, the lowest price ticket is $97, seemingly a steal – you could get a profit $83 over the long term. So to those that think $300 for a Dark Lord Day ticket is outrageous, they are right, but only $120 right.

Incidentally, it would appear only 5 tickets have actually sold on StubHub (you have to login and go through the process of listing tickets to see this info) with an average price of $136.20 (range $75-165). This seems to lend more support to the market having the set the correct price for a ticket.

As for me, I got my Dark Lord Day tickets at the $12.50 price. I will be going, with at least 9 of my friends, buying as much Dark Lord as allowed, sharing some immediately, drinking a bottle or two in the next few months, and cellaring the rest to enjoy on more special occasions. And I might sell one bottle on eBay at some point in the future…for $75 of course (collectible bottle only, any contents incidental of course).

UPDATE 3-22-11: As was brought to my attention, Three Floyds has done very little to help their own situation by keeping the price of Dark Lord at $15 per bottle since it was first introduced in 2004. I believe most in the craft beer community would argue that a $75/bottle retail price is far too high. Even $45 might be too high. Goose Island BCS Rare, priced at $45, was a level generally accepted by the craft beer community for a high quality brewery aged beer, even though it was trashed by mass media. However, after a few weeks there was still bottles to be found at major retailers. So perhaps if Three Floyds raised their price to $20-25, it would be accepted by the community, help to reduce demand while still selling out, thus helping to eliminate the huge secondary market. Then again, the fact that they haven’t yet raised the price, might make any such pricing change unacceptable to the market.

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Episode 60 – Boulder – Obovoid vs Big Sky – Ivan the Terrible

Special Guest: Adam Vavrick from Binny’s Lincoln Park. St. Patrick’s Day and “green” beer. Another Dark Lord Day update. Big beer releases part of the job. Decade episode – podcast concept recap. Stoutfest at Goose Island Clybourn.

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Episode 59 – Allagash Curieux vs Real Ale Sisyphus

Special Guest: Paul McGuire. Paul’s homebrewing adventures. Recap of DotLA and NotLA. Beer and water only for lent? A barleywine versus a Belgian tripel.

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Episode 58 – Three Floyd’s – Black Sun Stout vs Speakeasy – Prohibition Ale

Other podcasts we enjoy. Steve’s recent good beers. Chicago craft beer week coming up soon. New superfans. Recent beer litigation news.

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Episode 57 – Mission – IPA vs AleSmith IPA

Special Guest: Kate Jones. We talk to Kate about her homebrewing adventures. Dark Lord Day update. Three Floyds tap takeover of the Beer Bistro. Legislative efforts to help craft brewers in IL. (IL Senate Bill 88IL House Bill 205)

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Episode 56 – Russian River – IPA (sort of) vs Bear Republic – Big Black Bear Stout

Special version of Goose Island Matilda. Drunken tweets from the Red Cross? Russian River Blind Pig faces off against Pliny the Elder for the chance to take on the Big Black Bear.

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Episode 55 – Sam Adams – Chocolate Bock vs Mikkeller – Draft Bear

Special Guests: Doug and Tracy Hurst from Metropolitan Brewing in Chicago. Doug and Tracy talk to us about their unique approach to brewing and focus on lagers. We sample their Flywheel Bright Lager and Burning Docks of Riga, find out what they drink when they aren’t drinking Metro, and get their thoughts on Pliny the Younger.

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Pliny the Younger, available on eBay?

Natalie Cilurzo, from Russian River Brewing Company, caused quite a stir this week by publicly flogging an eBay seller offering a bottle of their recently released Pliny the Younger, a beer  many feel is one of the top 10 beers in the world. Some argue that it is the right of people to resell things they purchase (regardless of the legality, especially liquor distribution laws). The crux of this outrage though is that Pliny the Younger was never bottled and first available only at the RR Brewpub in Santa Rosa. This means that someone needed to order a draft of Pliny, and then smuggle it out of the bar and then pour it into a bottle, or some similarly difficult process. Either that or they are selling a fake. Both options are not really good for the beer industry, and certainly not Russian River, but the outcry seems to be focused more on the fact that someone was trying to smuggle and sell the beer on eBay, not so much the quality of the actual product.

Sid Boggle of Boggle About Beer sides with Russian River stating “eBay seem to have removed the offending beer, and I hope they’ve banned the prick who tried to sell it.” Ray Daniels, head of the Cicerone organization, says it’s wrong to do this as well. Stephen Beaumont even calls people doing this type of thing Beer-holes!

The general beer community is more mixed: BeerAdvocate people, in a now locked thread (thanks for nothing BA), seem to be of the opinion that Russian River needs to make the beer more widely available, while RateBeer people mostly say Russian River is right and beer is too hyped anyway.

While it may be in very bad taste to attempt to repackage beer for resale, brewers making limited release batches of highly rated beer must understand the true demand for their product. They can raise their prices (and capture more value from the demand) and/or make production bottles available that can then be traded and sold on the secondary market to those people who are willing to pay the market price. Or they can see what drastic actions people will try to take to get their beers into places where it is impossible to get.

My advice for breweries is that if a beer you make becomes very popular you should try your best to make it available to the widest audience possible. Three Floyds Dark Lord Day could be a good example of the combination strategy. Holding a one day event to sell bottles at your brewery enables locals to come out, try the beer and enjoy the brewery, while at the same time enabling a larger audiences access to the beer through the secondary market.

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Episode 54 – Southern Tier – Choklat vs Fort Collins – Double Chocolate Stout

Special Guest: Lauren Colmar. All Chocolate episode! Welcome back Lauren and congrats on the new baby. Baby Mastny small and big stouts. Rogue Double Chocolate Stout. Thoughts on Hopslam. UKG pub crawl. Brewpub shootout.

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